upping the anti

alexanderraban:

The problem with following all of these hermetic and/or masonic symbols too attentively is that many of the founders/framers of these orders were themselves pretty poor scholars of Hebrew (and of other things). Crowley was very fond of pointing out Mathers’ many errors in transliteration and/or attribution, and the errors perpetrated by A.E. Waite could fill volumes. Daysrunaway’s initial post had this tagged as Martinist, but that tag seems to have been removed since. Regardless, I don’t know Martin very well, but even the best of the turn of the century occultists misattributed occasionally.
Add to this that much of their source material was adapted from 17th and 18th century sources who themselves were no great shakes at Hebrew (see the many medieval grimoires and the variations in nomenclature and orthography in them). So there’s alot of potential for “drift” especially when dealing with an author with unknown sources.
I knew of no angel named Tzoghiel (and neither did the internet), so I was just assuming a mistranslation (or mistranscription). But since you took the time to reply, I did a little additional research on a hunch and I managed to find our Tzoghiel (and the other names on the diagram as well). Liber 777 gives Tzoghiel as the name of the order of Qlipoth corresponding to Chokmah on the Qlipphotic tree of life. The other two names in the triangle (Thaumiel and Satariel) are the orders of Qlippoth corresponding to reverse Kether and reverse Binah respectively. The names accompanying the heads are the other orders of Qlippoth corresponding to the reverses of the remaining 7 sephirah.
The interesting thing (that relates to my earlier point) is that the Golden Dawn instructional paperwork (as published by Regardie) identifies the Chokmah Qlippothic order as the Ghogiel, while Crowley (in 777) and this diagram clearly spell out “Tzoghiel.” In Crowley’s notes to the table in 777, he notes that there is a somewhat different list of Qlippoth circulating, which was probably his sly way of suggesting that the H.O.G.D. list was faulty. So I’ve managed to bring the thing full circle (so to speak) :-)
Sorry about my intiial mis-identification. Just goes to show that the internet can’t always replace actual book research. Always glad to see people really prying into the oocult instead of just skimming on the surface. There are virtually bottomless depths for those interested in plumbing them :)

The problem with following all of these hermetic and/or masonic symbols too attentively is that many of the founders/framers of these orders were themselves pretty poor scholars of Hebrew (and of other things). Crowley was very fond of pointing out Mathers’ many errors in transliteration and/or attribution, and the errors perpetrated by A.E. Waite could fill volumes. Daysrunaway’s initial post had this tagged as Martinist, but that tag seems to have been removed since. Regardless, I don’t know Martin very well, but even the best of the turn of the century occultists misattributed occasionally.

Add to this that much of their source material was adapted from 17th and 18th century sources who themselves were no great shakes at Hebrew (see the many medieval grimoires and the variations in nomenclature and orthography in them). So there’s alot of potential for “drift” especially when dealing with an author with unknown sources.

I knew of no angel named Tzoghiel (and neither did the internet), so I was just assuming a mistranslation (or mistranscription). But since you took the time to reply, I did a little additional research on a hunch and I managed to find our Tzoghiel (and the other names on the diagram as well). Liber 777 gives Tzoghiel as the name of the order of Qlipoth corresponding to Chokmah on the Qlipphotic tree of life. The other two names in the triangle (Thaumiel and Satariel) are the orders of Qlippoth corresponding to reverse Kether and reverse Binah respectively. The names accompanying the heads are the other orders of Qlippoth corresponding to the reverses of the remaining 7 sephirah.

The interesting thing (that relates to my earlier point) is that the Golden Dawn instructional paperwork (as published by Regardie) identifies the Chokmah Qlippothic order as the Ghogiel, while Crowley (in 777) and this diagram clearly spell out “Tzoghiel.” In Crowley’s notes to the table in 777, he notes that there is a somewhat different list of Qlippoth circulating, which was probably his sly way of suggesting that the H.O.G.D. list was faulty. So I’ve managed to bring the thing full circle (so to speak) :-)

Sorry about my intiial mis-identification. Just goes to show that the internet can’t always replace actual book research. Always glad to see people really prying into the oocult instead of just skimming on the surface. There are virtually bottomless depths for those interested in plumbing them :)

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